Darwin was Wrong! We Co-create! With Bruce Lipton

Explore modern spirituality, creativity, and self-development. Delve into the intersection of metaphysics and science through great conversations. Where do you find your truth? It's a Big Universe. Welcome to Big Universe. I'm Jim Lefter. I'm your host today. I'm a spiritual German and media producer type guy. I want you to check out our new website, biguniversepodcast.com. You'll find a whole collection of the fantastic guests we've had over the years and it's, it's searchable. I am really excited and happy about that. My guest today has some incredibly interesting theories that we're going to discuss. In fact, it could be considered revolutionary and astounding in many ways. Bruce H. Lipton is an internationally recognized best-selling author and cellular biologist who spent decades challenging scientific orthodoxy with a revolutionary message. Genes don't control our destiny, our beliefs and environment do. As a senior research scientist at Sanford University's School of Medicine, his groundbreaking cloning experiments revealed the biochemical pathways by which the mind controls behavior and genetic activity, presaging today's revolutionary field of epigenetics. There's just so much that you've done and so much that you've published. His book, The Biology of Belief, is a global phenomenon. So many accolades. I'm just going to skip to the fact that his latest book is Beyond Darwin, How Epigenetics, Quantum Science, and Cooperation Shape Humanity's Future. You can find out more about him at brucelifton.com. Bruce, it's so great to have you on Big Universe. Jim, this universe is so big and you're covering it so well. And most important, I want people to understand that The information you've been providing to the public is information to uplift civilization. And therefore, you're playing a very important role in the evolution of this planet. Because we need the knowledge that you are offering to move from this place of chaos into the future. Yes, and we're going to talk a little bit. about thoughts of how we got to this place of chaos, but we're also going to offer a little bit of hope, which is really important right now. I hope it's more than a little bit. Yeah, yeah. A big bit of hope. Okay, so first off, I want to say, I want to fess up and tell you, surprisingly, I'm not a scientist. In fact, probably consult with my high school physics teacher to confirm that, and he would say, Don't talk to this guy about physics. But I do want to approach the material from a layman's perspective. Yes. And I hope you'll forgive me for that. No, listen. I understand this because science is like a church. We put everything into Latin. Nobody knows what the hell we're talking about. Yeah, yeah. In writing my book, I had to take that end decipherable Latin and turn it into people talk. So people talk is where I'm coming from. Well, and that's great. That's great. It's you do it very well. And it's so important to, to get that, that message across. So I'm going to go straight to the shock factor here because I'm a podcaster and I have to do it in beyond Darwin. Are you, are you positing the idea that Darwin's theory of evolution is needs to be adjusted or amended? Or are you actually saying it's wrong altogether? Darwin's theory is wrong altogether and responsible for the chaos that we are now exhibiting on this planet because of how you can summarize Darwin's theory, such as survival of the fittest and the struggle for life. A couple of big failures right there. Struggle for life. When did life become a struggle outside of the fact we made it one? And that's based on competition with a winner-loser mentality. And then I say, and then add this piece which really makes it bad. There's no morality in that competition, meaning whatever way you win, you win. So you hurt a thousand people, big deal. They're not the fittest. You're going to become the fittest. And so the competition with a belief of winner-loser is shaping our civilization. When in fact, that was actually not the original definition of competition. A whole different, I said, originally, competition, to strive together. I go, what the hell does that mean? He said this, competition wasn't win or lose, it was based on this. Let's say I'm a tennis player, and I'll be the first to acknowledge I'm not. But if I was a tennis player and I played people who were weaker than me every day, not only would I not get better, but I could actually lose some of my skill because I don't need it so much, okay? But competition is, I don't seek less able players. I seek better players. Why? Why? Because now that I'm competing against him, I have to get better to succeed in this game. So it's not I'm going to die and he's going to win either or. It's I'm going to have to improve myself to play this game. And that's what competition was supposed to be, where we compete not with winner or loser, but everybody wins and some people win more because they learn to do it better. And that's the game. But today's competition is I win, you. Lose, sorry. Yeah, yeah. And you equate Darwinian success or that mindset to the kind of greed that seems to drive The success of the 1%, the folks that own a lot of the game pieces on the board. Yeah, well, listen, Darwinian theory, yes, it's an educational course, right? But there are people who never went to school that lived by Darwinian theory because it is a built-in part of our civilization. And my father didn't go to school, but he lived in a dark, eat dark world, okay? He lived in that survival of the fittest. I got to go out and stake my share. Otherwise, I won't survive. And I go, a couple of things are wrong. Number one, survival of the fit test. I go, wait a second. The definition of the word fit. I am fit. Definition, I am capable of surviving. So I said, wait, let's line up all the people. Now, some of them are just fit. But some of them are more fit. They're fitter. And some of this top end are the fittest ones. So, Survival of the Fittest doesn't say anything about the rest of the world. It only talks about those people who claim to be the fittest. In Victorian England, when Darwin wrote this, there was an upper class, the fittest, and the rest of the world fit. Who gives a damn about them? It's upper class, okay? Today's upper class turns out to be the moneyed people, the people with the money. I say, yeah, that's 1%. It's actually less than 1%. I say, where's the problem come from? And here, this, if you haven't seen it, is this. Science has recognized that it takes the resources of 1.6 planet Earth to provide for today's civilization. Resources, 1.6. Right, and you point out, this isn't sustainable for our society. No, because we only have one planet. The big question is, where are we getting today the extra 0.6? And the answer is, undermining the ecosystem. Destroying the planet under our feet. Destroying the web of life. With the idea of, what, are we separate from the web of life? A lot of people believe that. I go, what? Well, biblical genesis. Oh, yeah, God created the planets, the water. God created nature. Then God created humans and added them to the top. Oh, the idea we have dominion over that. We came in and we own that. It's like, first of all, that's 100% wrong. We evolved from the garden. We didn't get added to the garden. I said, so what? I said, we are part of the garden. That is a fact. I go, so what? If there's no garden, there are no humans. And I said, and what are we doing? We're destroying the ecosystem. Uh, uh, uh, before it was upper class, I said, save 1%. I said, why? Imagine the resources of the planet as a pie. And then I say, 1% takes 60% or more of that pie out. And I said, what's left? A third of the pie. And guess what? Eight billion people are trying to survive by getting a piece of that pie. Yeah, yeah. There's not enough of that pie. I say, why? Because the proceeds were taken out by that 1%. And I say, well, they call themselves the fittest. Well, they're the fattest in one sense in this regard. But the point is what? They are creating, manifesting a system-based struggle. Yeah, you want to live, now you're struggling, why? There's not enough resources. There were enough resources, but the way we ran it gave that 1% the power to do what they want. Corporations are the drive force of that. Are corporations your friends? Oh, man, you don't understand a definition, a legal aspect of a corporation. Rule number one, corporation, I don't care what they're making, rule one, provide a profit for the shareholders. Whatever you're doing is not rule one. That's down there, okay? For example, health care. Oh, yeah. The corporation is one damn thing, you know, all those. All those different entities, you know, all those different hospital companies. I go, companies? Oh, yeah. Corporations? Oh, yeah. I say, yeah, but the job I thought was to heal me. No, no. Job number one, make a profit. Number two, heal you. As long as we make a profit. Yeah, and this. Let me just finish this. The simple part is this. How does a hospital make a profit? The answer is they charge you more than the services cost. And all of a sudden I say, where's the humanity that somebody's sick and dying and you want to make a profit off of them? There's no humanity in that message. And the whole idea is. And we encounter this a lot in our society, especially in the healthcare system, because we... I mean, there are tracks of research into... Medicines that can deal with diseases on a better basis, but there's no profit in them. There's no money. So they can't proceed on those paths to get that information to make those changes. No, because if I give you a drug and I healed you, you won't come back. If I give you a drug that can hold on, you're going to have to come back and get more drugs and get more drugs. I used to be a professor in medical school. I'm not making this stuff up. What I'm saying is medical schools are controlled by pharmaceutical interests. I don't know what way. I say, if there's an alternate way to heal yourself without drugs, it's not being taught in medical school. Medical school This drug, that problem. Oh, okay. I'll train you to recognize the problem and then you will automatically know which drug you should give them. And so I'm fortunate I got out of that system. But we are training drug dealers. Interesting. So in what you're talking about with the let's go back to the Darwin conversation and One of the things you point out is that it was a major contribution into this idea that humans are separate from nature, that we have dominion over them. And that has profound implications on how we experience our lives. That's 100%. That's how we fit or don't fit. And we can go back. to the indigenous people like the Indians in North America, like other indigenous groups, their philosophy is we are in a garden and our job is to be gardeners. They saw themselves as keeping harmony in the garden. That is actually why we evolved. Every organism contributes to the balance of a garden. If one organism gets out of control, a new organism will come in and bring it back to balance again. But then it will get out of control, and then another new organism, and boom, boom, boom, boom, and then here we are at the top. Why? We have the power to control the organisms in this garden, but we have no knowledge of the mission was to keep it a garden, not to use it to put trophies in your den. Look at the tusks on this elephant I killed. Yeah. That wasn't what we were for. Right, right. We forgot. So I have, I just happened, I was in a coffee shop this morning, because I tend to prep and do writing and stuff like that in a coffee shop, I know I pay for at least one full-time employee. But I happened to have a conversation. This guy and I have seen each other many times, but we've never had a conversation. And he approached me, and it turns out he was a physics professor. Now, I find that very interesting in the idea of synchronicity and all that. But I tried to very awkwardly express... your approach to, to Darwin's theory. And he wasn't at all dismissive, but he did say that, and we hear this a lot, that humans have been in a, in war and in warlike for eons before Darwin's theory was expressed. So he didn't understand the core correlation. Aren't humans just naturally destructive? Here's the story. Yeah. Humans have always been based on power. Who's powerful? In early civilization, the guy was the biggest club. Okay, don't mess with him. He'll beat the hell out of you. Okay, he's the guy. Power switched forms when it became who has the resources. If you want peace, you have to come and see me. And the resource people, the noble people, the kings, We own the land, you work for me, okay? And if you don't participate, we eliminate you from the game. And so there was a shift in power, okay? Then comes the biggest power change. Knowledge is power. All of a sudden it says, if you have the knowledge, you can control all the rest, okay? and this is where the Church of Rome took off. I go, why? They claimed infallible knowledge. I go, what do you mean? They say, our knowledge comes from God, and we don't question that knowledge. We are the source. You want knowledge? You come to us. The guy's in the black coat. You want to deal with life? See the guy in the black coat. Okay? And he'll give you the story of disempowerment. It says, who are you? We are the church. We're next to God. You're down there. You want to get good with God? 10% of your salary will tithe you for 10%. Okay? And then it became a money game. And they said, oh, you were a bad person. You have to pay some extra money. And it was a business. The first thing about the business is I take away your power and I supplement my version of it and you buy it. When you feel you are a victim, you feel powerless. When you feel powerless, you will pay anybody anything to keep some power. The church took away, you're not. You're just low. Medicine. Medicine. took away your power by saying, you don't know how to take care of your body. We do. And if you have a problem with your body, don't look for dealing with it. We have the drug. Now they send you the drug. Why? Because if you believe you're powerless, you need the drug. But what if you were programmed that you weren't powerless? You wouldn't need the drug. That's why those programs are not out there. because money controls, the corporate control, be it the industrial military complex, be it the pharmaceutical complex, the corporate entities are programming us to be customers in their corporate field. And to be a customer, you have to be powerless at some level. But let me go back to this guy's question. And I'm just trying to understand it. I totally agree with what you're saying. But if we go back to the idea of the guy with the biggest club, you know, can dominate at first. How isn't that showing us that this power dynamic has always been controlling us versus the idea that as cooperation, we grow as cooperation. Now, I agree that we grow as cooperation, but tell me the experience there. The power issue is always there, okay? It's more insidious and more powerful today because of recognizing your mind is the source of your power. But if I can control your mind, then I own you. In this world of how much money do I have to be that fittest? See, that was in today's world from Darwin's time was, how do I get to be the fittest? Why? They have the better life. I want to be with them. I said, well, how do you do it? He said, well, in today's world, make as much money as you can. And I said, are there rules? I said, No, that's the game. Make as much money as you can, any way you can. Scam, you know, do it, whatever. And justify it. That's what Darwin's theory does. It justifies this issue. Okay, all right. But as we got more conscious, the point is, and this is the critical part, we are biological creators. You are creating your life. You are not thrown into the mix as a victim. You came in and were programmed to be a victim. You weren't born, you come out of the birth canal, you're not a victim until I teach you you are a victim. And then the moment you're a victim, then I'm teaching you powerless. And the moment I'm teaching you powerless, I'm teaching you to be a customer, whether a church or a drug or wherever. If you're powerless, you will pay for it. And so I said, the drive force is to seek this power, okay? It was unknown as a drive force. It was like, hey, that guy's a big guy. Keep out of his way. Okay, I'll keep out of his way, okay? The resource guy had all the money. You know what he did? He bought the big guy. The military end of the church or the noble, the king, has a military. Those were the guys who were clubbed, but resources supersede that physical power, so the resource manager owns the physical guy. And then the church... owns the resource management. Right, right. When the king is kissing the foot of the pope, can you see the power relationship there? Yeah, the pope overrides the king. Right, because he knows the answers to the internal questions that even the rich guys. Well, he doesn't really, but yeah. He gave you an answer that you bought and then realized, hell, I don't want to go to hell. That's what he's burning all up. I've seen Dante's pictures. I go, Dante's pictures? What, did he visit? No. He made it up. Yeah. And the whole idea that hell actually was Greek mythology, a sea of burning fire, a sea. It was like mythology. But when programmed as a belief, then the generation of fear of I don't want to go there has to be resolved by what are the rules that Do not go there. The church tells you how to live. And if you don't live according to the way they said, you're going there. So the implication of the idea of Darwinian theory is one of the implications is that humans arose from a series of accidental genetic mutations and there's no actual reason for us to. Exist that is a bad that was very bad. Tell me what that means what that why that's. Wrong because it says why am i here yeah hey it was an accident right hey what should i do you know make yourself happy how do you do that well i can kill you and then i'll be happier oh no okay so that that was uh science separated us by i mean church separated us first by saying Nature was here, then we were added, okay? No, no, we evolved from, okay? Then science comes in and do what you just said. How did we get here? Oh, accidents or mutation. An accident, that means, well, what was the purpose? I go, it was an accident. There's no purpose. We lost, again, the purposeness of our existence in a garden. You know, the original people knew it. We lost it, okay? And the point about that is that science has given us a story of random mutations. And I go, no, you see, that's an old belief. There is a new version of mutations, new 40, 50 years now. But the other version makes more money. This version says mutations are not accidents. Mutations are adaptation. So you can adjust your biology to the world in which you are living. Okay? So this is how animals in the Arctic don't live in Africa. Okay? Or roses that grow here in the temperate zone don't grow in the Arctic. Okay? Our organisms fit the environment. I go, why? Because The mutations that occur are ones that bring you into harmony with the environment so you can exist here in the garden, okay? So our mission, we got here without knowing it. How did we get here? I said, no accident. You got here to be part of a garden. I go, ah, here's the issue. A garden definition. A garden is the height of cooperation. Every insect, animal, and plant in the garden is there to cooperate to do what? Beauty. The definition of the garden is the beauty of the planet, okay? And we have so separated ourselves from that beauty that we are destroying the garden under our feet at this moment by what? A lack of understanding we are more than connected to the garden We are an expression of the garden. We didn't get here by accident. We got here to live in harmony, to keep the garden in balance, okay? Every organism was brought in for balance, but then sometimes get out of balance. So then a new organism comes in to bring it back, but then it goes out of balance. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And here we are, the top one. Because if we lean left or we lean right, we can either save the planet, or as we're doing today, undermining and destroying the ecosystem without the real knowing of we are the ecosystem. Yeah, yeah. So tell me about your concept of what conscious evolution is. that this thought that can actually guide us to a more sustainable future. I know you've been talking about it to an extent, but clarify it a little bit more in a way. Okay. Well, the first thing is this. We have been programmed to believe that genes turn on and off, and then the process can control the character of our lives. As far as you know, you can pick them, those genes, You don't like the characters you have. You can't change the genes. And then we offer that genes turn on and off by themselves. That immediately puts you into victim of heredity. What's in my genes is going to control my life and I have no control. I'm a victim. So that's all of a sudden. But it turns out that whole belief is false. I say, why? Genes cannot turn on and off. I go, what does that mean? I say, A gene is a blueprint to make the proteins, which are the building, physical building blocks of the body. Proteins are complex molecules. They break down. You have to replace them. You need a blueprint. And I say, oh, DNA is the blueprint. I go, yes, it is. I go, so why is that important? Blueprints are not self-actualizing. Meaning, a blueprint cannot turn on and off. It's a blueprint. I go, yeah, so what? Aha! There must be an architect. Because the architect that reads and adjusts the blueprint. I go, the mind is the architect. The mind has an image of a belief, love or fear, let's say. I say, then what? The brain takes the image of the mind and converts it into complementary chemistry. There's a chemistry of love, and it's totally different than chemistry of fear. I say, and what about these chemicals? They go into the blood. I go, why? Well, the blood is going to take those chemicals and send them throughout your body. 50 trillion cells are depending on the information that from the brain to coordinate life. The coordinating information is chemistry in the brain. Well, it turns out the brain chemistry, when entering the cell, controls the genes and the readout of those genes. And all of a sudden I said, well then, my thoughts, via the chemistry of the brain, are controlling life. my biology, my genes, and my behavior. They go, yeah. I go, why is that important? The old story that everybody's growing up with, I'm a victim. I can't do anything about it, yeah. And now it turns out the new science, which is called epigenetics, I go, genetics is what you were programming. Genes control, what? Epigenetics, revolution. I go, why? Epi means above. So, We call skin epidermis. I say, why? Underneath the skin is a layer called dermis, and the skin is above the dermis, epi. Epi means above. So epidermis means above the dermis, that's the skin, okay? Epigenetics means this, control epi above the genes, okay? Control is not in the genes. It's above it. I go, what is it? Consciousness. Consciousness translated into chemistry, which in turn controls the biology. So all of a sudden it says, what are you thinking? What are your beliefs? Why? That consciousness will control your biology, the genetics, and the behavior of it. A belief in harmony will enhance your vitality. A belief that is not in harmony will take away that vitality. I'll give an example because it's positive versus negative thinking. You go, oh, positive thinking, that doesn't work. I was trying to think positive. I go, no, wait, wait. The placebo effect, which can heal you of any disease. and is responsible for over 50% of medical healings are based on the placebo. The what? The belief that by doing this, I will get healthy. By taking this pill, I will get healthy. Well, what if the pill's a sugar pill, but you didn't know it? But you were told, this is the pill that will make you healthy. You go, I want that pill. Why? I'm going to get healthy. You take the pill, you get healthy. Then you find it's a sugar pill. I go, the sugar didn't heal you. It was the belief, a positive belief that the healing will occur. All of a sudden I say, oh, then it was the belief that controls this. I go, absolutely. And positive beliefs enhance my vitality. And all that time, nobody says, well, what about negative beliefs? Nobody asks that. I go, that's the problem. Why? Negative beliefs are equally powerful in controlling your life as are positive beliefs, but in the opposite direction. A negative belief can cause any disease. As a matter of fact, cancer is not caused by a gene. Cancer, there is no gene, there's not one gene that causes cancer, okay? Cancer is caused by a disharmony in lifestyle and consciousness. Your beliefs have sent a message to the cell with chemistry that was antagonistic to your vitality. Negative belief, negative chemistry. And you have switched a healthy gene into a cancer gene. You did that by lifestyle and consciousness. So I'm going, so why is this so important? Because you are creating. And you didn't recognize that a negative thought, and most of our thoughts are negative by percentages, are taking us away from health. Negative thought, it's called nocebo, can actually cause any disease and even just kill you if you firmly believe in a negative thought. Voodoo, voodoo. how people get sick in the tribes where they use voodoo. Because why? The programming is the shaman is the creator of the spirit of life. And if they put a hex on you, you can die. Well, you hear there's a hex on you, you've immediately bought a consciousness and said, I'm going to die. And say, well, be careful because that thought is what kills you. It's negative thinking. Well, this is the problem we have in our world. All of us are bound by more negative thinking than positive thinking. So does that mean you're enhancing your vitality? I say no, you take it away. And the more negative thinking, the worse the health care crisis has become. Yeah. Okay, so... You're a cellular biologist. Yes. Let's talk a little bit about, as far as I can comprehend, a little bit about your work. You started to, when you were examining cells in clone cells, you observed a change. And you mentioned Lynn Margolis. Is that how you pronounce her? display a primitive version of consciousness. What was your experience and what changed your perspective to say, you know, this is not what we were taught? Okay. Consciousness is simply defined, the simplest definition. I can make it so complex I can leave half the life on the planet. Please, please, please don't. No, the simplest definition is the ability to read an environmental signal and respond to it. Bacteria are responding to the world. You change the environment, they change their life. They're primitive consciousness, okay? Our consciousness is much more advanced, okay? My research is... I say cloning cells. I clone what I call a stem cell. What is a stem cell? A stem cell is an embryonic cell. It can become anything. So I'm cloning it. I say, yeah, I put one stem cell in a dish by itself. And it's divided every 10 or 12 hours. So first there's one, then there's two, then there's four, and eight, and 16, blah, blah, blah. End of the week, 30,000 cells in the Petri dish. I go, okay, point. They all came from one parent. 30,000 genetically identical cells. I split them into three Petri dishes, 10,000 cells in each dish. Each dish, all of them genetically identical. We grow cells in a fluid called medium, culture medium. I say, what does it represent? The blood of the organism from where we got the cells. If I get human cells, then the culture medium is the chemistry of the blood in the human body, and I make it in the lab. So I say, so what? I can change some of that chemistry. Okay, so I do. I make three different versions of culture medium. Slight chemical change. Slight. But each dish, one, two, three, gets a different environment. culture medium, ABC. So in dish one, environment A, the cells form muscle. In dish two, different environment, chemistry, B, the cells form bone. Dish three, again, all genetically the same as all the others, but a different environment, C, the cells form fat cells. While I'm teaching medical students genes control life, my research is saying, wait, they were all genetically the same. Why did some become bone, muscle, fat? It was the environment that made that difference, not the genes. It was like, oh my God, it's the environment controlling the genes. Epigenetics, environment above the genes, okay? So you want to connect this to the human? Very easy. What? A human is a skin-covered petri dish. I go, what? Under your skin, you have 50 trillion cells. I go, so what? They're living in the original growth medium. What? Blood. Oh. Does it make a difference to the cells in a plastic dish or a skin dish? I go, no. It's responding to the chemistry of the environment. And then all of a sudden I say, so that was the issue. What controls the chemistry of the blood? I go, the mind. All of a sudden it says, oh my God, change your mind, change the chemistry, change your genetics. Oh, I'm not a victim. I'm the one that's manifesting it. Okay, yeah. Yeah, and what are you thinking? And when you find out more than half of your thoughts, over 60% of your thoughts are negative, disempowering, self-sabotaging, or thoughts that limit your ability, then you realize your thoughts, which are running your program thoughts, subconscious, are running you 95% of the day. Your life is controlled by the programs. Now, the conscious mind is creative. If I say, hey, Jim, tell me what you want from your life. The answer you're going to give me, Jim, is coming from creativity. Oh, I would like you to envision. Oh, this is what I want. And that's an imagination. You can manifest it, okay? So I say, yeah, conscious mind, creative, okay? But programming in the subconscious mind is hard to drive. They're built-in behaviors. Push a button, he can do it. No thinking. You want something on the other side of the room? You don't have to say, okay, legs, right, left, right, left, let's walk across the room. I say, you don't even have to mention walking. The intention of walking activates walking behavior. You know what? That was a program. When? When you were an infant, you had to practice walking. And you practiced and practiced until you got the balance and the control. And after you learned how to walk as a program, and then what? You could be 100 years old and you're still using the same program you got before as two, okay? So is that the key? Is it to change this mindset that, you know, we're kind of, it's kind of forced on us. To change this mindset, is it a matter of practicing thinking differently? Or what can we do to, once we realize this, to shift that? Yeah. Well, let's first call them what they are, programs. I say, why? I say, the brain is not like a computer. It is the maximum computer that humans have ever experienced. I go, so what? It functions the same as a computer. I go, why? Why? Is that important? And I said, in the old days, you'd buy a computer. It didn't come with a program. So you could buy a brand new computer, plug it in, push start, boot up. And I said, do something. He said, I can't. You've got a new computer. Not until I put programs in can I use it. So the child's brain boots up three months before it's born. The first process is to put programs in. So for seven years, The brain of a child is essentially in a state of hypnosis. I say, why? A child can't go to school, read a book. How's he going to learn the vital program of being a member of a family, the rules of being a member of a community? How are you going to learn that? The brain of a child is in hypnosis seven years. I say, what does it do? Watch and then download. You watch your parents, your mother, your father. You download their behaviors. You watch your community. You download their behaviors. That's how you learn to be a member of a family and how you learn to be a member of a community. You download it, okay? I say, so you got your programs from what? Other people. Not from you. Not your wishes and desires. From their life, okay? And if they have a problem, And you downloaded it, you had it too. Cancer is not caused by a gene. They found what? A child adopted into a family with cancer running in that family? The adopted child would get the same family cancer, and the adopted child came from totally different genes. The cancer came from the programming system. So how do we shift that? I come to the realization that this is true. How do I shift it? And I'm talking from me personally because I know I have negative programming, but I do have trouble shifting that. Of course, because you have a program in your computer. I say, if you talk to that program, will it change? I say, no, there's nobody in there. I go, right. the subconscious where the programs are. There's nobody in there. So all the effort of, okay, do better, don't do this, I keep saying it, don't do it, and you keep doing it, subconscious, don't do it! I go, there's nobody there, so talking is a waste of time. It is a hard drive. I say, yeah, you want to change the program? you have to engage a record mechanism to put a program in, okay? So I say, there are three ways that you make programs or can change them. Three natural ways. Beyond that, it's very frustrating, okay? So I say, how did you get the program the first seven years? I say, the brain was operating at a vibration. Consciousness was lower than what we call consciousness. It was called theta. Theta is imagination. And that's why kids under seven can live in the real world, the imaginary world. They have imaginary friends, they play imaginary games. But theta is also hypnosis. So a child for seven years is observing, downloading. Observe somebody's behavior, download that behavior. now that's your program. Yeah, but with their program, now it's you bought it, it's your program. My father and mother had a dysfunctional relationship. I watched my father's behavior. Unaware at under seven, I'm watching behavior that is dysfunctional. Yeah, but I downloaded it. I go, yeah, so what? For 40 years of my life, I could not sustain a relationship. I go, why? Because 95% of our life is coming from the program. And once my father's behavior, which I didn't plan or download, starts to activate 95% of the day, I'm creating dysfunctional behavior, which is sabotaging relationship, okay? And so I have a problem. I can't get a relationship. Why? Programming. But I can change the programming. I say, well, how do you change it? Oh, well, you know, that's Jeff's question. Well, I'll tell you. The first way of programming is hypnosis, theta. Well, the brain has different levels of vibration, which represent different character. Hopefully, the vibration you're in while watching this program is called beta, which is focused consciousness, real high-level consciousness, okay? But when you go home and you're relaxing, the vibration slows down to a lower vibration called alpha, which is calm consciousness, okay? But the moment you fall asleep, the vibration goes to a next lower level. Consciousness shuts off. You're asleep, no vibration in consciousness. You're not there, okay? But the next vibration is theta. And then the lowest vibration, delta, is unconscious. So every night when you go to bed, the moment consciousness disconnects, you're operating in theta. If you put earbuds in or earphones on and you play a program you want to be part of your life, a program that you have challenges with, health, relationship, money, you get a self-help program. Mm-hmm. Just as you're going to sleep, you put the earbuds or earphones on, start the play of the program. Now, while you're awake at that moment, you'll hear some of what's going on. But the moment you fall asleep and alpha disconnects, you are not there. But the subconscious is there. And it's in record because, hey, subconscious theta is hypnosis. So whatever is coming in the ears, That programming is changing the programming of the subconscious. But there's a short period of time before it delves down. So you have to repeat this for a number of times, a couple of weeks. And so one way to do it is to listen to these hypnosis audio programs? Self-help audio programs. Yep, and fall asleep. And that's the best part. So what do you have to do? Fall asleep. The rest of it will happen while you're sleeping, which is easy, okay? Well, I have a question for you. In my experience, every night I put on the Dick Van Dyke Show or I Love Lucy, and I fall asleep to that because I don't have to pay that much attention. It's pleasant, and I. It stops the brain from spinning and spinning and spinning. Am I setting myself up for failure from that, or am I going to manifest the life of Dick Van Dyke? I think if you're going to bed with Dick Van Dyke, you're setting yourself up for happy funding, okay? I like that. But if you do like my brother was doing, falling asleep with Fox News, you are sabotaging your life with poisons. and you're doing it unconsciously, okay? So putting something on at night, you want something mindless, you know? Because for a lot of people, it's very hard if it's very quiet to fall asleep. So you put on some... Some people have nature sounds, waterfalls, blah, blah, blah, or music that is peaceful, okay? Not Led Zeppelin, but something more peaceful than that. And that will help you calm the vibration down. That's what you want. Now, that's seven years of programming. But you did learn things after seven that did become programming. You learned how to drive a car. You learned how to play a music instrument. So, I say, how did they become programs? The second way of Making a program is repetition. Practice something. Repeat it, repeat it, repeat it. It's repetition that makes a habit. Create a different way of life, practice it, and you have a different way of life. Actors, which are consummate changes of their biology by studying the character. Okay. Okay. They study the script and they know what the words are. I got that. Okay. But a character has different behavior and different way of life. So to play a character, you can't be yourself. You have to adjust your way of life to match the character. So the more you get in character, the more your biology becomes that character. Interesting. Um, Dustin Hoffman, every time he takes on a role, he's somebody different. And I'll never forget, because I saw the movie Midnight Cowboy, and he plays Ratso Rizzo, a bum. But he was really doing a great job. And I said to the person, yeah, that's Dustin Hoffman. It's really good. And then they said, oh, you should see him in The Graduate. So I go get The Graduate, and halfway through, I say to somebody, when's Dustin Hoffman coming on? time what he was so different I didn't see him okay well what if you became an actor in your own mind make a script this is who I am this is what I want to be but it's not making it you have to practice it okay there's a saying funny somewhat fake it till you make it I said you're not a happy person you want to be happy person All you have to do is all day long, as many times as you can think about it, you say to yourself, I'm happy, I'm happy, I'm happy. Repeat, repeat, repeat. And then one day you wake up and guess what? You downloaded a new habit. You woke up happy. So repetition of a new behavior Whether you're an actor and you take out a whole new, I can make any character I want. They just bought a character off a script, okay? Yeah, but why don't you make a character? What would you like your character to be in a movie? And then you design that, practice it, and you become it. Ah! Okay. Now the third way, there's a thing in nature called necessity is the mother of inventions. The necessity we have right now is science is telling us we're facing an irreversible collapse of civilization. We're living beyond our means, and it's coming soon. And how you are going to survive is you're going to have to change the way you are living, and therefore you have to change behavior. And we don't have a lot of time, so nature gave us a new modality called energy psychology. What's that? I go, Conventional psychology wants to take you from the past and your experiences of how those built you up to today. The problem with that, that's why they have tissues there, is because you're going to replay all the BS. I was going to say a better word, but BS. Belief system, BS, BS. If you're replaying all that, It was the stuff that made you upset in the first place. So, replaying it doesn't make you any happier. It actually just makes the program stronger. So, energy psychologists get a damn about the past. There's an old saying, don't kill the messenger over the message. The program you have is the message. The people who did those behaviors were the messengers. So, Going back and beating up somebody is irrelevant. You already have the program. I don't care about the messenger. So the new idea is how can I change the program rapidly? And here's the point. A child under seven is a super learner. A kid grows up in a house with three different languages spoken. that infant will learn all three languages just as a part of nature growing up. Now that same kid is, let's say, 10 years old. We want to teach them one language. All of a sudden, now it's a hard job. Yeah. How come they can learn three with no sweat and can't learn one new one? Because the first seven years, we were in super learning. And the idea is, I'll tell you exactly what it is. There's a line down the middle of the brain. We call them hemispheres, left and right. Hemispheres have different functions. Left is intellectual words come from there, okay? Right is emotional and pictures. Words, pictures, okay? Intellectual, emotional. They're different, right? Under seven, they're integrated. So every response that you learn, every experience you have, had under seven comes with an intellectual component and an emotional component, both things simultaneously. After age seven, they're physically in the same place, but they don't function at the same time. After age seven, your age right now, even Jim's age and my age, we're in what? Split brains. I go, what's it mean? It says sometimes during the day you're more intellectual in your behavior. And then like a wave later in the day, you're more emotional. It's a wave. It's called ultra-radiant. Intellectual, emotional. Intellectual, emotional. Okay? You separate the hemispheres. Okay? If you can bring the hemispheres to coordinate back together again, you can enter super learning. I say, so what? With energy psychology, you can download a new and permanently new belief 15 minutes at the most. Really? Yes, absolutely. So where do you get that? Where do I get that? Well, on my website. Belief modalities. I've listed 25 different energy psychology modalities. I give a paragraph description. and a website where you can connect with them, okay? Okay. I use one called Psych, like psychology, P-S-Y-C-H, hyphen K, that was standing for kinesiology, but it's called Psych K. And we use in that process a posture called Cook's Hookup. What's that? The right hand is controlled by the left hemisphere. it's the opposite side, okay? My left hand controlled by my right hemisphere, okay? So when I'm moving my hands out here, my left hemisphere is in charge of the movement and everything going on. But if I move across the midline, I'm moving it out here, well, the left hemisphere is still controlling it, but now the right hemisphere, I'm in that zone. So the right hemisphere picks up and influencing the control. So when I cross my arms like that, okay, I make the left and the right come back together again. Aha! Interesting. When you cross your ankles and cross your wrists, you can engage super learning. Interesting. It's very relaxing. Think about this. The next time you're sitting around with people, next time, when you're hanging out, Look at the feet of the people you're hanging out with. I'll tell you why. Almost all of them will cross their ankles. They'll cross one over the other and sit back. Okay, yeah. That's calming. That is part of relaxing. But when you do wrists and ankles, you can enhance the right-left connection to a point of super learning. And I say, then what do you have to do in super learning? My God, thank you very much. I say, why? All you have to do is first you identify the belief that is giving you a problem. And I say, how do you do that? And there's a term called muscle testing. I say, what? I hold out my arm, and somebody's going to push on it. And the idea for me to keep it straight and strong. Not arm wrestling, that's what guys do. They go, lift it up. I say, no, no. Can you hold it steady? That's the test. And somebody pushes on it. If your arm is steady, the muscle is strong. If the muscle is weak, the arm will bend. Okay? So, here's the point. The two minds are... Conscious mind is creative. Subconscious mind is programmed. If I make a statement with my conscious mind, I can make any damn statement I want. It's creative. If I make a statement and the statement is backed up by the program and the subconscious, then both minds are in harmony and the muscle is strong because subconscious controls muscle. If I make a statement that's not true, with my conscious mind. And my subconscious mind goes through the database and says, well, that's not true, that's not true. The two minds are in disharmony. When the minds are in disharmony, the subconscious loses the control of the muscle. So if I make a statement, my name is Bruce, put my arm out, they push on it, there's more to it than just that, but if they push on it, am I my arm will stay strong. Why? My subconscious knows I'm Bruce. I am Bruce. But if I put my arm out and say, my name is Mary, and I push on, I'm going to lose it. Why? Because the subconscious knows not. The subconscious knows. So what's the point? In doing energy psychology, and you can get into integrating right and left, crossing the wrist, crossing your ankle, uh, then you become, for a moment, a super learner. So let's say I do the original test. I love myself. 80% of the people will not test positive. I love myself. Boop, my arm drops. I say, uh-oh. I say, what do I want to program? Well, the opposite of what I'm experiencing. I'm experiencing I don't love myself because I can't hold my arm. So I say, I want to program I love myself. So you find out, and this is simplifying, do I put my right over my left or my left over my right? I say it makes a difference. Why? They represent different hemispheres. My left arm represents the emotional side. My right arm is more or less the intellectual side. So am I fixing a problem emotionally or intellectually? It depends on which way I cross my wrist and my ankles. So there's an You gotta do that, okay? I find the strong one right over left, let's say. And I get into that, I can go like this, like myself, okay? I go like that, holding on my chest. I have my ankle crossed, the selected strongest version of wrist and ankle. And I sit there and I close my eyes and this is all you do? Take a minute or so, you're integrating right and left, okay? and then I say, I love myself, immediately you're going to get a sensation in your body. Your body's physiology is going to respond to the statement. If that's not a valid statement, your body's going to acknowledge it by being, that's not right, it doesn't feel good. You even get some talk, back talk, oh, that's not true, or whatever. Your body will inform you if it agrees with that statement. I say, then what? I say, I love myself, okay? Uh-oh, not right. I say it again. I love myself. No, still not right. It may take two minutes, three minutes. Seems like a lifetime, but three minutes of I love myself sensation. I love myself sensation. There will be a change. Radical. The next time you say, I love myself, the body will go, okay. No dish on me. It'll feel, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love myself, yeah. That's fascinating. I mean, okay, so. That is it. When you do that change, I say go back and do the muscle cells. Before, I said I love myself. Boom. Now, after doing that and I feel the change, I say I love myself solid as a rock. Point. My subconscious changed. Why? My conscious has no control over this in the first place. What changed is my subconscious bought a new belief. And that's it. Walk away 15 minutes later. It's done. I'm sorry, I had to finish that. No, that's great. Is this provable? Do you have evidence for that? Okay, cool. It's even been shown using electroencephalograph brain function. Radical change in the brain activity. The moment that belief changes, there's a radical change. It was interesting because a friend of mine who was doing that would give a lecture to an audience, have somebody on the stage hook them up and go through the process, and the people could see the EEG broadcast above on the screen, and they get into posture, and they go, I love myself, I love myself, and then all of a sudden, a radical change in the electrical activity aligns with the fact that the person has said, I feel the difference. And that, that's it. Is it provable? Yeah. It's done by EEG, so you can see it. Okay? Does it work? Thank God it does, because I got rid of those negative programs in my life. And when I met Margaret, I got rid of the first one, my father's behavior. That was important. But any time a glitch shows up in the relationship, the question was, Well, you want to change that behavior? I go, yeah, okay, do what? Side K. How long it take? Three minutes. What? New program. What? I now live with my partner, Margaret, a honeymoon, 30 years every day. Why? The negative programs that would have come in and thrown the thing off balance, Those programs are all changed. They now match my wishes. I program wishes and desires as programs. I say, so point what? When I'm not thinking, my conscious mind is manifesting wishes and desires from conscious creativity. But when I am thinking and I default autopilot, subconscious autopilot takes over when you're thinking, Now if I'm thinking and my subconscious kicks in, the programs have the same wishes and desires. So I'm never out of honeymoon. That's awesome. For over 40 years, I was not a spiritual person. I was a science guy. Yeah. Genes, chromosomes, cells, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I started to understand something because I was also teaching immunology. Hmm. that no two people are biologically the same. I go, eight billion people. I say, everyone's an individual. I say, how, why? I say, I cannot exchange my organs with you. If I put my kidney into Jim, his immune system will say, not self, foreign, and destroy it. If you take your lung and put it into some other person, their immune system, not self, and destroy it. Point. No two people have the same self. I go, oh. I say, what is the self? The immune system sees physical things, viruses, bacteria, parasites, okay? Well, if it's looking at a transplant and says not self, there's something physical that distinguishes you from the transplant. It turns out on the surface of your cells, There are protein receptors. Okay, you have receptors, eyes, ears, nose, taste, touch. Your receptors are built into your skin. The membrane of the cell, the skin of the cell has receptors, has proteins. A receptor protein is like an antenna, receiver. I said, on each of us, no two people have the same cell. of self-receptors. Every human has a unique set of self-receptors. Eight billion. Got eight billion different combinations, okay? Okay, so why is this relevant? I say, the receptors download signals from the environment. I say, so what makes me different than you? Well, I have a a set of cell receptors. They're not on the red blood cells, actually. That's why we can transfuse red blood cells, A, B, O, but I can't transplant cells with a nucleus because those are the cells that have these antennas, okay? And I say, so what? I go, here's the important part. They're downloading a signal from the environment. Yeah, they're on the outside of the cell, so obviously the signal's coming from outside. I say, but what are they downloading? I go, a signal that is unique to you and nobody else has the same signal. Myself, different than yourself. I say, yeah, but what is myself? A set of antennas. They go, that's the physical correlation. I say, the function of the antennas is to download a signal. I go, it's the signal that makes us different. Okay? Then what? Well, there are no two people downloading the same environmental signal. And in quantum physics, the signal are energy fields. Field, definition, physics, invisible moving forces that influence the physical world, okay? Spirit, definition, invisible moving forces that influence the physical world, okay? Quantum physics recognized some of that energy field that we're in represents spirit. But no two people downloading the same spirit. Why? Because no two people have the same set of receptors. So I go, now what does that mean? My identity is being picked up by self-receptors. Myself. And where's that signal coming from? The environment. So why is that important? Imagine the body as a television set, and the receptors are the antenna downloading a broadcast, okay? Right now, you're watching the Bruce show on the Bruce TV, and I have my antennas tuned to my identity playing through this, so you're seeing my program, Bruce, okay? Point. When the television breaks, we say it's dead, game over, doesn't work, no more done. Does the broadcast die when the television broke? I don't know, the broadcast is always there. Aha! Our identity as a broadcast is not built into the TV. It is received by the TV. I go, oh! So my body, the TV show that you're watching... Can die. Broadcaster Bruce is still here. Then what? Well, an embryo in the future shows up with the same set of antennas. I'm back! It's called reincarnation. I go, yes, it's a reality. It's a reality. That's quite a leap from your previous idea of, you were an atheist, right? Absolutely. And all of a sudden they said, well, wait a minute. I can't die. Why? I'm not in here. I'm here. I can't die. The fear of death disappeared instantly. Why? I can't die. I own this. It's not a suggestion. or something I can work on believing. I was a science guy. I saw the mechanism. Okay, I said mechanism. I'm not spiritual. How long does it take me to become spiritual? A minute. That was it. No question. Now, here's an important part. Does it make a difference if the new TV is male or female? No. Why? You're not the TV. You are the broadcast. Does it make a difference if the TV is black, white, brown, yellow, red? No, that's the TV. You are the broadcast. Does it make a difference if I'm an American TV or a German TV? No, American, German, that's the TV set. That's not you. All of a sudden I say, oh my God, We all came from the same place. It's not the bodies. It's not the race. It's not the religion. We are all broadcasts. We are all from the same field. We are all creators using that broadcast to manifest our life experiences through the programs. And when a large number of people share the same program, it manifests as a culture, okay? Or a nationality, okay? And when we change our belief system, we change civilization. And this is the process we're in right now because civilization is destroying itself. It's called autoimmune disease. And the way out is Not change the world first, change the belief. The world changes after the belief changes. And this is Jim Schoen, especially spirituality. Own the simple science. You can't die. You're not even in here. Then I say, then why am I here? I go, to create. I say, create what? Wishes and desires. I say, what's that? Heaven. You came here to manifest heaven with a machine that will build and make and create and manifest a vision. I go, oh, we were born to create. I say, yeah, you're a creator. I say, and all of us together represent the creator with a capital C, God. How we live as a community determines the lifestyle not just of ourselves, but of the environment as well. And this is the wake-up call of why big universe programming is so critical. Hey, I don't care what color your skin is. That's irrelevant. Why? You are the broadcast. I am the broadcast. Now, the programming, they turn this thing into crap. I'm not a religious person, but Jesus to me was a great philosopher. Mm-hmm. And the thing he said that I would close this with is he's on the cross, and the last thing he said, something we should pay attention to, he said, Father, forgive them. They know not what they do. I go, that is the message, my friend. If someone wrongs you, do they wrong you because they're an evil spirit or a bad program? But here's what I want to touch on As we've been talking about, we're at a crossroads right now. And we know that empires fall, they rise and fall. But you say that the chaos and destruction we're experiencing can be a good sign because it's a precursor to creating a more advanced version of civilization. And you quote, and you quote Harold J. Morowitz as saying, hopefulness is a human imperative. How, what you give me some hope here that give me some hope in, in moving forward. If I went around the world and ask 8 billion people, tell me what you want. You will find almost all of them want exactly the same thing. They want to be healthy. They want to be happy. They want to be safe. They want to live in an environment that supports them. I'm going through a list of what. I say, these are the wishes of what you would want. I say, all of us have those wishes. I say, then how come we're not manifesting them? And the answer is because we have been programmed by interests that want us to be a victim because they survived by us supporting them. Okay? And the whole idea is what? Well, the only way they can get that support is to make us feel we don't have the power. And so I say, yeah, but I'm coming out from a point of view of what? I came from a problematic upbringing with downloading bad programming and all that. And now I'm living heaven on earth. Now I'm living the purpose of it. Why? Why? I wake up every day, I don't know what's going to happen, but I can show you this. I wake up happy. I wake up in love. And if something goes wrong, in those days I'd be, oh, I'm going to fix it, man, I'm going to fix it. If it goes wrong, I'd look at it as, well, whatever I was doing, it wasn't in harmony, and I should pay attention. If it's not working, then nature is telling me it's not working. And that I can adjust my changes in my behavior and my belief to become more in harmony. And when you get in harmony, and when you can wake up every day going, oh, I'm so happy to be here. I do this in the middle of the crap that's going on in the world. I'm not involved in that. There's an old hippie thing here, Jim. The old hippie statement is, before you go out and change the world, take care of your own backyard. First, if you can create harmony and balance in your life, then you are in a position to help others. But your harmony and balance becomes something that they want as well. You become a model. They want what you have. How did you become happy in the middle of this crazy event? you become a teacher because you can say, I changed my belief. Bruce, thank you so much for joining me on Big Universe. It's been an absolute pleasure. I want to bring you back at some point so we can dive into some of. This other stuff too. I want to hang out with you, okay? That's awesome. And we've only, as you said, we touched on something. Just touched on it. Yeah, there's so much more. There's so much more. It's a lot deeper, but I think if people can, you know, take what they see as the fundamental messages It's a way to move out of the chaos and move in to the garden. And that's where, hey, the garden is beautiful. Bruce A. Lipton is an internationally recognized best-selling author and cellular biologist who's on a mission to show that genes don't control our destiny. Our beliefs and environment do. His book, The Biology of Belief, has been an international bestseller. And his latest book is Beyond Darwin, How Epigenetics, Quantum Science, and Cooperation Shape Humanity's Future. You can find out more about him online at BruceLipton.com. Thanks, everybody. I'm Jim Lefter. We'll talk to you next time on Big Universe. Thanks for joining us on our Big Universe podcast. For more info, check us out at MindBodySpirit.fm and search all of the episodes at BigUniversePodcast.com. Keep exploring your truth. It's a big universe.